Show Notes: Episode 6: On Being A Woman in Music with Bree Noble
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In this episode Bree and I discuss:
Navigating the business as both artists and music industry professionals
How a woman’s journey in the music business differs from a mans
Getting support from peers with peer mentoring is just as worthy as finding a high powered mentor
Why marketing yourself may feel so confronting and actually shame-inducing (much more for women than for men)
Organizations and groups and tools all women (and men) should know about to help get ahead in this business
How connecting with other artists and creating community shifted Bree’s music career trajectory
All About Bree:
Women In Music (A Non-Profit Organization every woman and any men who want to support women in our industry should be a member of)
Ilyana Kadushin. No, I Know Podcast
Ariel’s article on how a mastermind group will change your life
Musicians Guide to IG Stories & Highlights
On Being A Woman in Music Transcript:
Ariel: Hi it’s Ariel. Welcome to the Cyber PR music podcast and vodcast. You get a video you get audio and today this one’s for the ladies and the brave men who feel like listening in because there’s a lot to learn about a woman’s journey. This beautiful soul over here is Bree Noble a friend and colleague for 11 years. I know Bree from back when I started my nerdy podcasting and digital PR firm research and Bree was one of the first people that I came across and at that time she had an internet radio station where she was streaming female musicians and that has since morphed into something much bigger and greater I will let her take us through the details please tell us a little about how you got here.
Bree: I’d love to. First of all I have to mention I don’t know if you remember the first time we met we were on like this roundtable discussion together online like on the phone or something and they were having this conversation about you know music and PR and all that and we were on this together and I was like wow this person is awesome she knows what she’s talking about I need to look more up about her and so that’s how you came onto my radar it was probably some online radio station or something that was doing an interview, At the very end of 2007 I started a radio station called Women of Substance radio and it had actually been something that I had created way back in 2000 just as like my own personal playlist to listen to at work and I had met a lot of amazing female artists on mp3.com if any of you remember that. So I had a lot of my music on there and I’ve been doing really well on their charts and everything and I had met some other really great artists from there that I liked and so I created this playlist that I listened to it work and I called it Women of Substance because it was just women with either amazing sound or amazing lyrics all of the above and so it had to be at a certain standard for me to play it and it couldn’t be like fluffy party music so it needed to be really deep singer/songwriter or amazing pop and so that was what I created. Then along the way Live365 just decided to charge people (it was free you know that model where they get you hooked and then they charge you) so I was like oh I can’t focus on this right now and I let it lay dormant for several years and while I was a touring musician. In the mid 2000’s I started to meet even more amazing women and I really wanted to get their music out to the world and so I started looking back into ramping up the station again and that was when I decided to go all in and create a station that I would be promoting and marketing and helping all the women that I put on to advance their own careers through it too and along the way I played a few of my own songs but that was not the goal. The goal was there’s so much amazing music here and I want people to hear it.
Ariel: So, fast-forward now you’ve got you’ve got a mini-empire – Women of Substance is now a podcast you’ve got Fem Musician which is also a podcast where you’re doing interviews and talking to people in the industry plus you’ve got this amazing summit the profitable musician summit which is now in its second year. which is something we definitely will be talking about so Bree has been on a lot of interviews this is probably not the first time you’ve come across her and in our pre-call chat pre-taping chat I really want to bring out a topic that doesn’t often get discussed with her and she’s an amazing resource for this so what we are going to focus on today is the journey of the female artist and how it differs slightly from the journey of a male artist obviously we’re coming off of a big #metoo year as we know the music industry has gotten the impact later than everyone else’s which for any of us that have been in and around it it’s not surprising and the reasons for that – that’s a whole other episode. But women are still in not a pole position in this industry and we’re still outnumbered by the men pretty enormously but what I do want to focus on here is – women relate very differently to one another we tend to lean on each other in different ways and our male counterparts do so Bree and I have cooked up some different things that we’d like to point out and talk about and Bree has interviewed so many fabulous artists we’re going to also point out some of her past podcast interviews one of which is my favorite that I recommend and make all of my clients listen to. I want to dive in here and let’s start with when you’re thinking about the journey – I’m an artist or I’m a player I want to go out on the road and someone else’s band how is this inherently different for a woman than for a man starting on a journey
Bree: I’d like to say that it isn’t different but it is and I think it’s just because of the way that we know that people are viewing us as female musicians maybe makes us act differently and tugs on our confidence a little bit you know I’ve heard a lot of artists that I work with say you know so many times I would go and I’d be like taking stuff in to get ready for a gig and people would say oh are you the girlfriend of the guitarist like – no I am the guitarist you or I am the headliner and so there’s just this assumption that you’re walking into that you know is there and you-you hope is not there but most of the time it is kind of there subconsciously in the back of people’s minds that they’re not thinking that you could be the one that people are coming to see yeah and I experienced this in corporate being a Director of Finance I was the only woman on a team executive team of males and people would be like oh you’re the accountant I’m like no I’m the Director of Finance I’m on the executive team mm-hm and you have to go out and make people understand what you are and you know your importance without sounding self-important which is hard
Ariel: And also without sounding defensive. I was really young when I started my business- I was 23 I and I was a booking agent in the beginning and I used to go on the road with the bands and same thing people would say: oh which one in the band is your boyfriend and I’d be like actually the band is here because I booked this gig. Then it carried on for years. Ten years into my career I was managing a hip-hop artist Pete Miser and we had a huge meeting at a giant PR firm and this was a real moment of reckoning and I’m only talking about this because this is the reckoning that you’re talking about it’s on the industry side as well as on the artist side. So we had this great meeting with this huge PR firm which PS was owned by women. So, we went in for the meeting we talked through the campaign with my artist and we were really excited about hiring them for over $10,000 it was a huge investment at the time for this artist and he went to the men’s room and she said to me the minute he got up and left so how long have you guys been dating? and I thought wow is it because I’m enthusiastic about my client that makes you think that? Anyway, we will all experience these moments and it’s those times when it’s like what are you going to bring up are you gonna bring up being offended are you gonna bring up being defensive how do you disarm them so that you’re still in the game and you don’t look like you’re you’re defensive or bitchy which is another fabulous term that women immediately get assigned for just being assertive.
Bree: So, I think that that is a foundational reality for women [in the music industry] that you have to exude confidence or you will be taken advantage of I mean there’s so many stories that I’ve heard of people in the studio and just-just those little jabs you know like that you know I know more than you or you know you’re just here because I let you be here you know and they’re just like these undertones that no producer ever to anyone okay so right this definitely doesn’t want to be a bitch session.
Ariel: As a foundation that that we’re operating from here and there it is but so okay – how can you or I think the thing that we did talk about which I loved is women leaning on other women for support there’s been a huge study that’s been happening and it’s really a major priority for Women in Music the organization this year which is many many women in the industry have voiced a deep desire to get Mentors. Many women in the industry feel like you know men tend to have more mentors and men get mentored and so I I’d like to to spend some time talking about how women at any stage of your career whether you are just starting out and building up or you already are way into your career the importance of mentoring and I think that we’ve created an idea about what a mentor is that it’s this like person like Bree who’s like you pay Bree or you pay a Cari Cole which is totally legit, but it’s not maybe the first step and there’s definitely such a thing as peer mentoring.
Bree: I just got a question today someone said like if you could do something different from the beginning of your career what would you do? And I said I would have gotten a mentor so much earlier. Because I was just spinning my wheels and lost. It didn’t have to be. And a mentor can just be somebody that’s just a little bit ahead of you down the road and once you know the reason that I created the communities that I have for women is because one of the reasons I actually started to get traction finally in my career is that I had a group of women that I was in who were like I said a little bit further down the road than I was and so I had somewhere to like you know see examples of what I should be doing, to ask questions and it was just a peer mentoring kind of group and that’s one reason I created my free community on Facebook because I know that not everybody is ready to jump into even the Female Musician Academy. Let alone work with somebody like Cari Cole or you know bigger names out there or hiring you. They need somewhere that they can go. When they’re beginning and not feel like their questions are dumb because they’re really new and they just they’re babies in the industry. They need to know certain things before they can move to those levels.
Ariel: For sure. So one thing that I find incredibly helpful from my own career is I started something called Ladies Social and the intention of Ladies Social it’s not only music industry women although many women are involved in music but what we decided to do – a best friend of mine her name is Ilyana Kadushin. in and she has her own podcast – the No, I Know Podcast. She’s a very well known voiceover actor and fabulous musician I was her publicist that’s how we met. We created Ladies Social and the whole vision was – she knew a whole lot of really fabulous women I knew a whole lot of really fabulous women many of us were not only entrepreneurs but just you know beginning to come up in our careers and we wanted a place where we get together and we do once a month everybody comes to my house we drink a lot of wine. We started out just going around in a circle and just sort of talking about things that were on our mind and just shooting the breeze and getting opinions like getting support or help. Over the years we started honing our little mastermind group and now we have themes. One theme might be self-care how are you taking care of yourself? One theme might be partnership either in your love life or in your businesses how are your partnerships are unfolding for you. One theme might be advocating for yourself where don’t you where do you and we end up really advising each other as peers so for those of you that are sort of obsessed with like I must get a mentor and they have to be running a record label or something crazy like that just look around your life and there might be some really interesting people. I also think – and tell me your thoughts about this not having only music industry people because you’re running a business here. I learned from a lot of mentors that had nothing to do with the music industry T. Harv Eker – who wrote the Secrets of the Millionaire Mind was one of my biggest mentors when I was really ramping up my business and all he talked about was money. How to make money, mindset around money and that was huge for me and then I’ve had many other mentors that I’ve hired and been in their mastermind groups having nothing to do with the music industry so I think that’s another option for those of you that feel mentorless.
Bree: I think for me this is the first year that I’ve actually been in a mastermind of musicians. You know people that help musicians it’s always been just business people across the board and you can get such a great person from people that are in different industries and instead of living in this bubble you know of and I think especially for musicians we tend to get that whole like starving artist mentality and when we hang out together we can kind of perpetuate that whereas someone else will come in and they’re like a coach and they’re like well, of course, I asked $2,500 from my clients because that’s what I should charge. We’re like oh you know maybe I can do that.
Ariel: This is the perfect segue you have a new book that’s just come out about money and how to make it how to think about it and you’ve got to summit tell us a little bit about that you know I just I thought it was really important to focus on the money side which is why I created the summit because so many musicians don’t and I was one of those people which is a little crazy because I was an accountant you know as a director finance right but when I started as a musician it was like I just completely threw that stuff out the window and like now I’m a musician so I don’t you know do this finance stuff and you know only when I realized that like I’m running a small business did I start to say okay I need to bring in this entrepreneurship and and stuff that I learned in school as a business major and marry the two together and along the way with with artists and Women of Substance I just saw so many artists in that same boat. They thought someone else was going to come in and do all that business stuff for them and you know, even marketing! And, so that was kind of why I created the female entrepreneur musician because I wanted people to learn the entrepreneurial stuff. The first hurdle was always getting them to realize that as a musician they are an entrepreneur. And that they really can’t ignore that side of what they do or they don’t have a real business. And then with the Profitable Musician Summit, I wanted to take that up a notch and say ok now that you realize you have a business like let’s make you the CEO of your business. Let’s give you all the tools that you need to manage your money to make more money you know from what you’re already making expand on those income streams add some new ones and be strategic about it and then make sure that you keep more of the money that you made. That’s this year’s theme is how to make more money and then keep more of what you earned because otherwise we can kind of spin our wheels, keep trying to create more income, and there’s a lot of talk about that but then you know the money is just being hemorrhaged out the other side without us realizing because we’re buying equipment we don’t need and we’re not tracking our expenses when we’re on tour and all kinds of things like that. Maybe artists aren’t don’t get excited about they don’t sound sexy but they need them right so I’m trying to give you a dose of what you want plus a dose of what you need.
Ariel: Which, as artists you know this is really hard I consider my business very very creative I think that’s anyone that’s working around creative people you’re not – not creative. So, I would agree with this and it was when I really started focusing on money and I had to have some painful conversations. When I hired people like accountants and my friend who is an MBA and I hired her and she came in and she counted all of the hours that my team was spending on PR campaigns versus what we were charging for them. And that was like getting a smack in the face and she was like basically – this is why you’re always struggling because you charge a thousand dollars and then you work a hundred hours. It was really interesting to get that perspective. I want to present something else which is an additional annoyance when you’re looking at money and how it comes in in the industry and that has to do a lot with where we’re focusing our attention so right now one of the hot things that everybody is, of course, talking about is playlists and Spotify. Getting on playlists, getting our streams up across any streaming platforms, and how this is necessary. There’s a lot of news about how the streaming business is the thing that’s driving the record business. But I always want to point this out you’re not in the record business (unless you’re signed to a major record label) and that’s your reality you’re in the music industry – you’re in a different place. So, what I have seen a lot like you just said is like when you start to track like if I spend thousands of dollars promoting myself on Spotify playlists and the results of not understanding where that fits into the bigger picture is you get a check for 49 cents from Spotify. Now, you don’t always want to measure your ROI with how much money comes back at you but what I love about your work Bree is, you’re looking at the other places where actual money is made so that better choices can be made. So like yes licensing is a big one but it’s interesting licensing is is very hard to do it requires really understanding the licensing world spending a lot of time in it it’s just not a magical income stream that you just launch and go for it very quickly. So, often artists come to me and they’re like well I want to be film and TV licensing, and I want to be on the road, and I want to etc, etc. And I’m like okay we have to choose one and strengthen one muscle at a time.
Bree: Yeah licensing is almost its own business model and you know eventually you can maybe run a dual business model but you-you really have to invest a lot of time and energy to learning that business so I don’t recommend that anybody starts out with that. Once you got the artist thing dialed in then maybe you can add that. But, I think that you know what I want to focus on is the fundamentals. Because like you said, like, whatever the hot new thing is – it’s Spotify playlists. But where is that really gonna bring in the money? No, it’s not. What’s gonna bring in the money is setting up a system where you are bringing in fans you’re communicating with your fans you’re getting them to come to your show and I know that that’s all like you know oh I’ve heard that a million times but have you done it? Have you actually put those systems into place?
Bree: Do you have an email list are you communicating with people you know that’s one good reason I had Cheryl B. Engelhardt on the summit is because, you know, email is important and she shows how she actually made dollars from her email list based upon I had this many people I made this many dollars therefore I know that every time I add one person to my email list I add you know $2 a month or whatever $1 a month to my income. That’s motivating yes right right if you’re just thinking about your email list is this annoying thing that you have to do which a lot of my students do think of it that way until I beat them over the head enough times until they realize that this is part of the money making systems of your business. It is a lot of work but so is every business. I think that’s another thing musicians are like I don’t want to work that hard I like being creative. Well I like being creative too but I still have to send the emails out or no one’s gonna know what’s going on and no one’s gonna buy anything.
Ariel: so on that note what would you recommend we all know we have to do all this stuff even me like the email list thing is not sexy it’s not fun it’s so necessary how can we lean on one another to make sure that the things that we need to do get implemented this is where I think women almost have a leg up here. I think that if you commit to helping each other how about you get an email buddy? I know it sounds so stupid but you get like an accountability partner and every week you I don’t know have you I know you’ve interviewed so many women that have done either really pulled themselves up through the industry and are creating their own success. Any stories or any artists you’d like to cite about how they managed to to really get this stuff in action?
Bree: Somebody that really stands out is somebody that’s in my Academy because she utilizes exactly what you said she utilizes accountability because she knows that that works for her. Her name is Catherine Moller. She’s a fiddler up in Canada and she’s actually in two different accountability groups and she works with me one-on-one because she knows that that’s what motivates her. She has done so many you know amazing things growing her email list, doing the kinds of albums and tours that she wants to do because she’s just constantly plugging away at it. It’s not sexy and there’s no magic pill formula it’s really about setting up a system that actually works for you and I know that everybody has different personalities. So,I tell my students you don’t have to conform to the way I do it. If I love Asana and it works for me and I love getting up at 4 a.m. but that would never work for you don’t do that just because I do it. You have to figure out the thing that works for you. Then you have to stick to that and that’s that’s the hardest thing. I believe that (lack of) consistency is one of the things that keeps artists from moving forward. One of the biggest things that I’ve seen in my students and so having those groups of accountability and with women like in a group of women in my experience with this like there’s just so much more compassion and empathy and we give each other the SmackDown when you need to. I just believe that as women like we are more communicators and we’re able to articulate what’s really bothering us with other women better than we can with men. This year I’ve experienced being in a mastermind with men me and two men totally different vibe you know but then and but I’ve been in masterminds with just women and I think there’s a place for both but like with my Academy it’s amazing what people will share with each other physical things that they’re going through and they just need a place to be able to share that and know that they’re not the only one going through it I think that’s a thing too with web and to is just knowing that you’re not alone and not being isolated because if you’re isolated and what you’re going through then you can only see what’s right in front of you- you can’t see your problem is not as big as you’re making it out to be.
Ariel: Right and I mean I think this is also the power of #meto for support for the men that are sticking around listening to this when you feel like you’re the only person that something has happened to it makes it ten times more difficult. For any of you that understand who Brené Brown is and the studies she’s done about women and shame women tend to hold on to shame in very different ways than men do. What I’ve realized as someone who coaches men and women around getting out and putting themselves out there marketing is like holding up a giant mirror to anything that makes you feel awkward and uncomfortable if you have shame in your past Instagram is like a shame mirror. People come to me and they’re so stuck and upset and flipped out about social media or marketing or PR or whatever it is. Nine times out of ten in my experience, it has nothing to do with understanding how stupid Facebook algorithms work because there are 10 billion blog posts that could teach you how to do that it has nothing to do with can you figure out how many times you should tweet a day, of course, you can. That is not rocket science. What’s really going on is what I have noticed is that there’s pain or something shameful or something embarrassing or something that is getting rubbed up from your past that is making the whole marketing thing such a quandary.This is the thing true I just feel women are suffering with more and I have to also say I think Instagram when you look at what performs on Instagram its women in bikinis, it’s your boobs, it’s sexy shots, it’s selfies it’s duck face, it’s strippers looking like they’re workout queens. This is what people are getting the most likes around. So I think it’s really hard to reckon “putting yourself out there” like that when that’s not your thing. This is not to diss people that want to do that but I’ve watched a woman have a meteoric rise in social media coaching and half of her photos on Instagram are her in a bikini and I need to really understand how that goes with teaching someone how to use a camera for their YouTube streams. It’s how she’s branding and so for those of you that are looking at other people that are doing marketing in a way that is getting a lot of likes or a lot of attention a lot of it might feel extremely uncomfortable. There’s a reason I’m saying this I want to loop back around to some tools because Bree is a woman that has a treasure chest full of tools. It’s understanding how to use them and when to pull them out which I think can get you through a lot of these blocks around all of it because every time you try to get yourself a gig, every time you try to get anything you’re on a bit of a sales campaign. And that’s another harsh reality for those of us that really just want to focus on the music and the creative side like you just said like a lot of people just come to this because the joy of making music, of recording music, of playing music in front of people is the part that’s so loved.
Are there any tools that come to mind I mean one that I’d love to just say and I sit on the board so there’s a disclaimer but there’s a community of incredible women it’s it’s an international community it’s called Women in Music its women in music dot org. t’s 40 bucks if you’re a student it’s 75 bucks a year to join and this is a community and a great tool because there’s a Google Group associated with it and Bree on it I’m on it everyone that I know practically in the industry is on it if you ever need something it’s one email away. Hey, I’m looking for a great photographer. Hey, I’m looking for a place to stay in Paris. Hey, I’m looking for whatever it is and there are thousands of people I need a great lawyer I’m looking for whatever so I that’s the first tool that I’d like to recommend. Men can join it as well there’s a lot of very cool men in women and music and the men are really known in that community.
Bree: I think I think that’s such a good thing because you know as musicians there’s there really are so many ways we can get taken advantage of and having the advice of the people in there and knowing that what they give us is gonna be someone reputable I see it it’s like the Yelp of the music industry.
Ariel: Totally! And I’ve met so many interesting people by just asking so that’s one tool another tool and Bree can explain a little bit more is lean on her podcast women if you’re looking to get your music out into the world Bree’s podcast is phenomenal it’s well thought out it’s a great little stepping stone in fact when I write marketing plans and we write the DIY PR section if you’re a woman it’s the first thing I put on the list it’s like go submit to her podcast tell us a little bit about it.
Bree: It’s something that I created because of the fact that I saw that that women weren’t seeing people like them out there doing this stuff and having success and so what I think that’s come up in the podcast that is so cool is I tend to attract a lot of older artists which has been really inspiring. I’ve had people that have been super meteoric in their young age and then as soon as they started to get older the industry just completely abandoned them and they’re like you know was my worth all about being young and beautiful? And then they came back and they were able to create a music career and it was something totally different and so if you’re feeling like you know I don’t look the way I need to look for a music career you know I’m – people have told me I’m too old I’ve had students say that the industry people have told them once you’re over 30 you’re done. And this podcast is just inspiring we have up now 185 episodes and many of them are interviews from artists that maybe you’ve probably never heard of but they’re out there doing this thing day in and day out building a business and being successful at it. To me that’s the biggest thing about it is like most of those artists you’ve never heard of which is more inspiring to me as an indie artist than me you know interviewing famous people Lady Gaga or whatever like yeah I already know she’s doing it I want to see people like me.
Ariel: My favorite episode and is episode 126 and I will put this in the show notes I always recommend most of my artists start by listening to it because that episode is about incremental wins and how like you said earlier there’s no like magic fairy that’s gonna show up and make your music career and I love that interview. It’s so poignant and it says so much Daphne Willis is the artist that you interviewed and Daphne has a really interesting story had a huge deal that happened to her and thought like her ship had come in and then the reality of what that really was about unfolded and how she sustains. Go back through I think you’ll get this is a great tool for you is to listen to some of the stories of other women and.
This is also by the way getting mentored I think we think of a mentors like – I must go and meet for coffee and they will tell me something amazing. You can just listen to podcasts and get mentored and in any area that you feel like you need help not just in the music business although there’s so many great music industry podcasts any other tools that come to mind Bree that you’d like to share?
Bree: I want to mention about Daphne’s episode one thing that stands out to me about that is if you feel like you have to have this huge following to be successful. On there she talks about how she’s got I believe it’s a Facebook Group and a community a small community but a very engaged community and she has seen so much support for all of her new albums and singles through that that that is basically fueling her career. I think you know starting your own community wherever your people like to hang out I think is a tool that we have the ability to use. When I was starting my music career I couldn’t gather people like that. I would have had to have a community in my hometown where I like invited people to a coffee shop. The internet is somewhere where you can create a group where you can invite people that like your music and that have like a common mission or you know are really on board with your message as an artist and you can have conversations about stuff that doesn’t necessarily even have to do with your music you can just befriend them you know and and that’s how you can grow your music I consider all the people that I work with as friends as well like I don’t like to think about fans I think that’s kind of weird.
Ariel: Yeah it’s funny I interviewed Tony Van Veen FOR EPISODE 2 and he said the minute you think of your audience as your fans that’s you’re up here and they’re down there.I thought that was such a good such a great it’s exactly what you just said is yeah and social media has kind of bombed all that out right I mean its funny when I answer my phone often people are like I didn’t expect you to be answering your phone well how did you expect me to make any money there’s no like person that’s gonna line that up for me. Right? So even people that have large follow like I’m loving Patreon that’s it that’s a tool for once you get this conversation going and you can identify people that are there to support you. It’s a little less jarring than a crowdfunding campaign, it’s a tool where you can say hey give me two bucks a month give me five bucks a month and there’s so many wonderful examples of artists that are leveraging their communities and have people more than willing to to support them which is which is yet another income stream.
Bree: I gotta mention as far as tools like I have been resisting this for a while but I’m actually starting to really love it and that’s Instagram Stories because I do feel like it is not like the feed it is so much more real you can you don’t have to be all like perfectly you know I went outside and I was on a walk and the wind was blowing my hair in my face and you know and I’m on a story and I don’t have to feel like I have to get all perfect and you can just say something quickly and then if it like doesn’t land with people it has disappeared so it doesn’t matter but you can like as musicians like we’re super creative and stories allows you to be really creative with the messages and be more behind-the-scenes with your audience.
Ariel: Are there any artists who you can think of we’ll wrap up with this as a tool I the beautiful thing about social to me is you can go and look at what other people are doing and borrow don’t steal and you know get inspired by what looks good and what seems to be resonating and tested out for yourself I mean this is one of the other things that’s so phenomenal about the barriers that are broken down and why I don’t think anyone should really pay when you’re a new artist for a PR campaign because you can do your own PR and you’re either so much you can do any artist stand out for you who are really leveraging Instagram stories or social media in a way that stands out?
Bree: I’m probably the wrong person to ask this question cuz I don’t tend to I’m pretty stingy about the time I spend on social because I don’t want to feel like I’m living my life online so I don’t follow a lot of artists you know I try to look occasionally to see what my students are doing to make sure that you know they’re actually following what I try to tell them to do but you know I would say somebody we talked earlier about Lauren Spring and The Krickets and I know that they I’ve not followed them on social but I know that they had a lot of success with their very first crowdfunding campaign just interacting with people on social and you know letting people know what they’re doing and yeah we’re very authentic about it.
Ariel: Yep, and their second campaign also went well and if you look at what the Krickets are doing it’s Krickets with a K’ they interact with everyone that say anything to them. So it’s they’re really good at responding they’re a great example I’ll throw another one in. She doesn’t have a huge following but her Instagram is so on point and beautiful and she’s really leveraged using saturated colors and an LA vibe and that’s Lauren Waller she’s actually been on one of your podcasts but she’s really phenomenal and you know when I when I met her and we started coaching her about her social media her Instagram feed did not look like that. She really does a great job she chooses colors and she’s very good at curating photos and she’s a young singer-songwriter so you’re kind of seeing her journey and her friends are there, LA is there, you can see different themes that are really coming out. Go give her a follow and you can you see her cool so for those of you who are women who feel mentor less I hope this has helped you. Listen to podcasts get in some mastermind groups start exploring how you can become part of free communities breeze community is your community free Bree?
Bree: Yes I have The Academy which is not free but that also includes a ton of training and like live group coaching but the Female Indie Musician Community on Facebook it is free we have over 3,500 women in there and it’s very engaged.
Ariel: People are constantly helping each other beautifully so also Women in Music it’s a not-for-profit by the way so your money goes to helping keep the cause alive I highly recommend you check them out and subscribe to Bree’s podcast take a listen to that come join I’m actually in the profitable musician summit I’ll be talking about Spotify and playlisting and there’s some phenomenal peers and an amazing teacher so do come to join that all of this and more will be in the show notes thank you so much Bree any parting advice you’d like to leave the listener?
Bree: My parting advice is always about finding a community so luckily we’ve given you guys tons of ways to find community on this episode so to me that was the thing that pulled me out of my like funk my isolation my overwhelm and confusion about what to do to build a music career and all I really needed was to connect with people a little bit further down the road than me so go do that find what a community that resonates with you from the things we mentioned or something else and just plug yourself in.
Episode Action Sheet:
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Women In Music (A Non-Profit Organization every woman and any men who want to support women in our industry should be a member of)
Ilyana Kadushin. No, I Know Podcast
Ariel’s article on how a mastermind group will change your life
Musicians Guide to IG Stories & Highlights
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